Talk:The True God/@comment-33603920-20180105085748/@comment-32364874-20180301161132
I was specifically asked by Cheetah not to restart this debate... So of course I'm restarting this debate! Well maybe not, but I feel like I need to say some things that have not been said: FireyDeath4 you are talking about this as if it had anything at all to do with reality or physics or math or logic. It does not. It's pure speculative fiction with whatever bs logic or lack of logic people want to make it with. You cannot proove or disproove anything about the TTG because it is not based on anything except the imagination of the people who created the concept and wrote the page. You say things like "it is not possible to create math" or "time has always been" or things like that. You say those things as if they where universal axioms. They are not. I can define a universe where anyone can create new forms of math whenever they want. I can create a universe where time exists, then stops existing, and then starts existing again or whatever. Time can be like space, as you say, or it can be entirely different. All that is needed is for someone to imagine it as being different. That's the point of fiction. Only under the limitations of causality must time have always existed instead of being created. But here anyone can have a verse without causality or with different laws of causality. All those impossibilities and contradictions and many more are possible here and, by accepted definition, they all exist in the box. Contradictions are also possible and abundant. The fictional contents of this wiki are not all cohesive and well agreed by all members and creators. There are disagreements and contradictions and that is ok. Different people view different things in different ways. It's fiction, its ok. You seem to like things like "1+1=2". Well, even on our universe 1+1=3 (for large enough values of 1). But I can have a universe where 1+1 = 4, another where 1+1=11, another where 1+1=inf, another where 1+1=green and another where 1+1=fish and another where numbers don't exist, the concept of numbers don't exist and is impossible to count at all, or the concept of addition does not exist. Not just that people haven't invented it yet but a universe where it is actually impossible to count things, where physical reality is not countable at all in any way for some reason. It's hard or impossible to imagine by us? Sure but fiction is not limited at all by what we can easily imagine. One debate I've had with soup about the TTG and the Box that seems to be similar to what you are trying to say: How can one align the existance of something that contains everything (the Box) with the existance of something that is independent of everything else because it created everything else (TTG)? It is a natural paradox. So everyone chooses if they prefer to have an absolute space above all else (the Box) or an absolute creator above all else (TTG). The Box has infinite different absolute creators inside it, infinite TTGs inside it, infinite different creators and infinite beings infinitely more powerful than the TTG, no matter how absolutely omnipotent he is because a being infinitely more powerful than an absolutely omnipotent being is just an impossible being and those are all inside the Box. The Box also contains infinitely many parts of it that have not been created and where no TTG or similar exists, because, ya, that's a possibility and all possibilities are in the Box. So ya, the Box contains both its single creator infinitely many times and has no creator at all, at the same time. Yes, its a contradiction and contradictions are impossible and impossible things are inside the box. From the other viewpoint the TTG is the creator of everything, including the Box and exists independent of the Box (one could say maybe outside of it). Even if the Box always was, time itself is part of the box, creation is part of the box, its creator is part of the box, nothing can exist outside of the box, nothing can be before the box to create it, TTG created it and comes on top. Whatever way you look at it is a contradiction and its ok. A possible form of looking at it (this is how I choose to look at it) is to see an infinite loop: A TTG that creates a Box that contains the TTG that creates a Box that contains the TTG... forever and ever. An infinite circle of a contradiction. Now, some can choose to call that circle the Box itself and that makes things simple. Or you can choose to name that circle something else. The thing is, for those who put the Box first, even the circle will be inside it. For those who put TTG first, even the circle will have been created by it. For those who put the circle first, its infinite loop is independent of the other two. And the funny thing is that they are all right. Embrace the contradictions. Dunno, maybe this solves your problem in some way!?